Welcome back to Red Dead Redemption! In part five, we analyze our fifth gameplay video where Ross and Fordham continue to threaten a frustrated John into tracking down Dutch. With his mission now complete, John is released and is reunited with his family - but is his redemption complete? In this episode, we laugh at John's toying with MacDougal and Uncle's words of encouragement. More seriously, we react to the game's ending, discuss Dutch's choices and contemplate Jack's actions.
Don't forget to watch or play along - gameplay is posted weekly on our YouTube channel! Join us next week as we summarize Red Dead Redemption, it's story, character's, themes, and more!
Please consider supporting Eggy Toast if you enjoyed the music in this episode: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eggy-toast/
Find Us On: https://replayreviewspod.com/ https://www.instagram.com/replayreviewspod/ https://twitter.com/RepRevPod https://www.reddit.com/user/ReplayReviewsPod replayreviewspod@gmail.com
#reddeadredemption #rdr2 #gaming #videogames #RDRNoCommentary #johnmarston #rockstargames #GamingPodcast #VideoGamePodcast #GameDiscussion #ReplayReviews #ReplayReviewsPod #GamingCommunity #Gamers
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 In this episode, John's sarcasm reaches an all
00:00:02 --> 00:00:06 -time high. And speaking of, Ross should really
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 leave the humor to John. And also, use your knees,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:14 ya woman. Thank you for coming back for more
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 replay reviews. My name is Leah. And my name
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 is Kathy. We are two friends who are here to
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 replay, review, and analyze your favorite video
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 games. And since Kathy has never seen the games
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 before, it helps me view them through her fresh
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 eyes. Almost like I'm discovering them again
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 for the first time. We hope it will be a similar
00:00:30 --> 00:00:40 experience for you. Scene 1. John arrives at
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 McDougal's. He's all hot and bothered about some
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 breakthrough he's had. Sounds like somehow Dutch
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 is part of his breakthrough. He describes it
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 as a win -win for both of them. To me, tell me
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 if you thought different. It sounded like what
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58 he was... saying is Dutch is a good case study
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 for reverting back to a savage spirit. That's
00:01:03 --> 00:01:06 what it sounds like. But I also feel like the
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 professor is saying there's one race that's superior
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 to the other race. Yeah. Keep in mind, this professor
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 is shooting up, so he's not quite with it. An
00:01:15 --> 00:01:19 understatement. So they leave. I think John's
00:01:19 --> 00:01:20 just like, you know what, if I get Dutch out
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 of this, whatever. I'm not sure what's happening,
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 but. Yeah. Nastas joins up too because he's set
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 up a meeting between some of Dutch's men and
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 McDougal. Unsurprisingly, the meeting turns out
00:01:32 --> 00:01:36 to be a setup. Nastas gets shot right in the
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 face and John takes down all three men in the
00:01:39 --> 00:01:43 cabin before they race back to Blackwater. Nastas
00:01:43 --> 00:01:46 dying so quickly or so soon was something I was
00:01:46 --> 00:01:50 not expecting because proportionally we get a
00:01:50 --> 00:01:54 lot of the first third of the game about like
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 just the country in the wild west and then a
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 big portion was about in mexico so it's like
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 great we are here where there's some native americans
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 it's going to be great getting to see more of
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 that and no he immediately dies proportional
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 to everything that happened in mexico yeah that's
00:02:10 --> 00:02:14 crazy only the innocent people die in this game
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 i mean some people have died that deserve it
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 maybe three well i would rather the professor
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 died than nas is dying And I feel like that's
00:02:22 --> 00:02:26 unfair. This professor is literally on crack.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 He is just insane. And I think he would fit right
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 in with any of the Outlast characters or in like
00:02:33 --> 00:02:37 the inpatient. Yeah, he could be a Dr. Traeger
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 for sure. And yeah, poor Nastas. All he's trying
00:02:40 --> 00:02:44 to do is broker peace between these two sides
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 and he just gets shot in the face for it. And
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 John's reaction is, holy shit, damn you, Dutch.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 So he's obviously saying Dutch is responsible
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 for this. Is it because he is manipulating this
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 gang of men? Or what do you think Dutch has to
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 do with this specifically? Maybe that was just
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 like because of Dutch, I'm doing all these unnecessary
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 things and putting people into worse positions
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 or making people more anxious and then innocent
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 people are dying. I think we need to do a so
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 long for Nastas. Or Nastas. I'm not sure how
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 to say it. But I kind of don't want to pronounce
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 it the same way McDougal does. Yeah. Probably
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 so long Mother Respecter. He didn't really do
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 anything wrong. He was loyal and he was just
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 caught in the crossfire. And he held his cool
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 so well. Yeah. Dealing with McDougal and Ross.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 Mm -hmm. He's a Mother Respecter. Just the patience
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 alone. Oh, yeah. And the fact that McDoodle...
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 McDoodle? We should call him that. That McDougal
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 tried to take credit for carrying John down the
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 mountain when Dutch shot at him. But it was all
00:03:48 --> 00:03:53 Nostus, and he did it with a knife injury. He
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 didn't have to do that. He's a good person. Definitely
00:03:56 --> 00:04:01 a mother respecter. Later on, John checks back
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 in with McDougal, who's still in a panic after
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 the shootout and is frantically packing his things.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 He says, I'm not cut out for this at all. And
00:04:09 --> 00:04:16 John says, Nope. No. And it's great. So I don't
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 think anyone is surprised when McDougal starts
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 shooting up. And whilst shooting up, someone
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 shoots in at them. Turns out to be Dutch. And
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 he wants to kill them both. I love how at this
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 scene, watching in person, you jumped in with
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 McDougal. And that's the one and only time I
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 think that you kind of got scared and I didn't.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:43 And I had to kind of keep it on the record because
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 it's an accomplishment for me. I must have just
00:04:46 --> 00:04:50 been focused deeply on something. Yeah. And then
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 the gunshot just spooked me. I don't know. I
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 could see it kind of like a flinch in the corner
00:04:55 --> 00:04:58 of my eye. And I was like, oh, my gosh, Leah's
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 scared before I get scared. That's a first. But
00:05:01 --> 00:05:05 moving on, this is the scene where Dutch is just.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 He's kind of hilarious because he's super cheery
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 and just having a normal conversation with John
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 while McDougal is freaking out. Let's discuss
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 a little bit about what Dutch is saying. He's
00:05:18 --> 00:05:22 sort of justifying his actions in a way and them
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 wanting to kill John and McDougal. We're fighting
00:05:26 --> 00:05:30 for something a bit like you. Only we're fighting
00:05:30 --> 00:05:35 for an idea, not just for ourselves. He probably
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 has some kind of ideology against the government
00:05:37 --> 00:05:42 or whatever party he's opposed to. So I think
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 that's just him. He's a rebel and maybe he's
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 trying to fight for something. And if it means
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 that he's also stealing things along the way,
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 that's why he's saying he's not a thief. He's
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 just fighting for a cause. What do you think
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 killing John and McDougal have to do with what
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 they're fighting for? He probably sees them as...
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 either backstabbers or traitors, or he's thinking
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 that they're going to stop him from accomplishing
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 his cause. Dutch is threatening them, saying
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 he wants them both, and I think he says to send
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 out McDougal so we can end this. And this is
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23 when McDougal is appealing to John, and he goes,
00:06:23 --> 00:06:25 Please, sir, what are we going to do? Please,
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27 sir, what are we going to do? I'm going to hand
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 you over to him and watch him tear you limb from
00:06:29 --> 00:06:33 limb. What? I'm just kidding. I was not expecting
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 that kind of humor in it. And it's so refreshing
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 to see John having his sense of humor now compared
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 to when he was in Mexico. Well, I think there's
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 some also great humor in the scene where immediately
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 it cuts to a scene of a man and a woman playing
00:06:50 --> 00:06:56 around in another bedroom, shimmying. Getting
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 ready. And then immediately the professor gets
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 caught. Not too soon afterwards. It's just a
00:07:02 --> 00:07:06 lot happening within back -to -back scenes. I
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08 know. Dumbass McDougal. So confident. We can
00:07:08 --> 00:07:13 go this way. Immediately gets captured. But in
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 the end, they are able to escape to Manzanita
00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 Post where he takes the train. And I think John
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 is pretty happy to have this guy out of his life.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 Yeah, there is one thing I want... All our viewers
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 to know and our listeners to know is how cool
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 of a shot you took. How you just shot the guy
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 behind McDougal when he's held hostage. No dead
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 eye. You know what I think it was, though? I
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 didn't give a shit if I shot McDougal by accident.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:41 There was no pressure at all. Yeah, that was
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 pretty impressive, though. John meets back up
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 with Ross and Fordham. But before we get inside...
00:07:48 --> 00:07:52 I came in kind of hot on the horse, and I jumped
00:07:52 --> 00:07:56 off while still in motion, and my horse continues
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 on for a few steps and crashes into some guy,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:04 and the way he says, the hell? It's just fantastic.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 Anyway, he presses Ross and Fordham again about
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 getting his family back, but they say their demands
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 have not yet been met. We get a lot of really
00:08:16 --> 00:08:20 deep... I suppose, conversations here from Ross.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 Is there anything you wanted to highlight? Yes.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 So I love how John's like, I'm done. I did what
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 you asked. Give me my family back. This is where
00:08:30 --> 00:08:34 I understand in those previous episodes that
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 we had a conversation, how you sided with John
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 saying he's a desperate man. I don't think I've
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 ever seen him as desperate and how much he's
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 ready to break until the scene where I now understand
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 that. sense of desperation and why he's willing
00:08:49 --> 00:08:52 to do what he did in mexico i don't agree with
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 it i wish he had still had more backbone but
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 this is the first time where i've seen that just
00:08:56 --> 00:09:00 he's he's tired he's about to break and then
00:09:00 --> 00:09:05 he has to listen to ross just being theatric
00:09:05 --> 00:09:09 and dramatic so i'm like okay i get where you
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 come from now that i've seen this scene it makes
00:09:11 --> 00:09:15 sense of what we watched before he just can't
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 really afford to take any risks But speaking
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 of Ross, I guess he's explaining to John the
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 difference between what Dutch says he is and
00:09:26 --> 00:09:30 what he actually is. He uses the metaphor of
00:09:30 --> 00:09:34 like a nature novelist and specifically flowers.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:39 So the quote is about Dutch. Rather than just
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 loving the flowers and the animals and the harmony
00:09:42 --> 00:09:46 between man and beast. He shoots people in the
00:09:46 --> 00:09:50 head for money and disagreeing with them. He's
00:09:50 --> 00:09:57 a goddamn killer. Now, I'm not a great intellect,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:03 but the metaphysical leap from admiring the flower
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 to shooting a man in the head because he doesn't
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10 like the flower is a leap too far. I feel like
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 I should know. What he's talking about, which
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 I'm assuming it's about the difference between
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 Dutch shooting and killing someone, but then
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 compared to the police doing the same thing.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 But I don't know if I'm on the right track. And
00:10:26 --> 00:10:31 that's kind of where it goes next. He says, while
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 the rules may not be perfect, they're not so
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 bad. Civilization may be dull, but the alternative,
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 Mr. Marston, is hell. I wrote, he has a good
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 point, but also I love John's response, which
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 is basically like, what the hell are you talking
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 about? And he also says something about, but
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 it's okay for you to kidnap someone's wife and
00:10:49 --> 00:10:53 child. And Ross is like, the rules may not be
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 perfect, but they are what they are. One other
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 frustrating thing is in this entire conversation,
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 they make themselves sound so superior that they
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 don't need John's help, yet they haven't been
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 able to catch Dutch, yet they criticize. Everything
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 about John and Dutch. And them mentioning the
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 harmony between man and beast. It's like they're
00:11:15 --> 00:11:19 using John as the beast. Like you still have
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 to have the harmony because the beast is still
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 there. But they're using a beast to catch a beast
00:11:24 --> 00:11:28 instead of doing it themselves. They're definitely
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 being hypocritical and he even admits it. Too
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 bad. What are you going to do about it? It's
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 like we have the upper hand. And unfortunately,
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 they're right. And that's what I find so compelling
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 about Ross as a villain. I hate the man, but
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 sometimes some of what he says is not wrong.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 You know, he has a point. And John's no saint,
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 so that's why it's easier to drive home those
00:11:52 --> 00:11:56 points. But you just love to hate him. Yeah.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 I think it's also disgusting how they talk about
00:12:00 --> 00:12:04 Abigail. Yeah. It's so bad. I just, I did not
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 like watching that scene. It's just like they're
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 trying to rile him up. They're like, give me
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 a reason, John, to shoot you right here. Which
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 I so wish John could punch them in the face,
00:12:15 --> 00:12:20 but it wouldn't get them anywhere. I know. So
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 they all leave to end Dutch once and for all.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 After some very long -winded shootouts, the agents
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 say they need to go after Dutch tonight before
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 he slips away for good. John pushes them, saying,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 what if I refuse? But they respond saying that
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 the last person they have to appeal to Dutch
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 is Abigail. John says that won't be necessary.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 So we see again how John just does not have any
00:12:45 --> 00:12:49 control or any other options. So they're riding
00:12:49 --> 00:12:53 to Dutch's hideout. And there's some conversation.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:57 I love John saying, don't speak to me. But the
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 line that stood out to me is Fordham saying,
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 there's always someone watching. did that hit
00:13:02 --> 00:13:06 you when you heard it i just thought that that
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 meant like now that he's back in this area that
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 they'll always keep an eye out so telling john
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 like because that's the whole the beast comparison
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 they're like don't step out of line because you
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 can easily kidnap your wife again but i think
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 that that's too shallow of what he's saying i
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 think he means something else i almost think
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 he said too much there and we'll talk about it
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 at the end of the game but I think he let John
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 get to him a little bit and he spilled a few
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 too many beans. So they do arrive at Dutch's
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 hideout and a fight begins. John chases after
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 Dutch until he finds himself backed into a corner
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 or I guess a cliff. Two of them have their one
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 -on -one. And they have, I think it's again,
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 part of John's sarcasm is something that Dutch
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 also shares because he's like, we've got to stop
00:13:59 --> 00:14:03 meeting like this. And Dutch looks pretty sad
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 in this situation. I think he knows there's no
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 escape this time. I agree. He says, I've got
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 a plan, John. John responds, you've always got
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 a plan, Dutch. And he says, this is a good one.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 And he drops his gun, and John lowers his in
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 response. It is pretty sad, though, because Dutch...
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 I can't remember if he says this before or after,
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 but he says his whole life, all he did was fight
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 and he can't fight anymore. But then there's
00:14:32 --> 00:14:34 also like a paradox because he's saying that
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 he can't fight his own nature. The whole quote
00:14:37 --> 00:14:41 is, we can't always fight nature, John. We can't
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 fight change. We can't fight gravity. We can't
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 fight nothing. My whole life, all I ever did
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 was fight. John says, then give up, Dutch. And
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 Dutch's response is, but I can't give up neither.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:55 I can't fight my own nature. And then John says,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 then I have to shoot you. So I think this does
00:14:59 --> 00:15:03 tie back into the man versus beast and the nature
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 conversation. Dutch recognizes what he is in
00:15:06 --> 00:15:10 this moment. He would die for fighting for whatever
00:15:10 --> 00:15:14 cause he mentioned in the earlier scene, then
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 to surrender to John, who is going to be that
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 biggest barrier to whatever cause he's fighting.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 It's kind of like if Reyes got captured, maybe
00:15:25 --> 00:15:29 Reyes would kill himself. I don't know. Dutch
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 then says, when I'm gone, they'll just find another
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34 monster. They have to because they have to justify
00:15:34 --> 00:15:38 their wages. The whole beast conversation is
00:15:38 --> 00:15:42 similar to monster. My biggest thing is we're
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 letting these police officers decide who's considered
00:15:45 --> 00:15:49 as the monster and who's not. And isn't there
00:15:49 --> 00:15:53 any kind of justification? or criteria of what
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 makes a monster a monster because we saw in Mexico
00:15:57 --> 00:16:01 how DeSanta was saying that Reyes is a monster
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 and then you hear the other way it goes the other
00:16:03 --> 00:16:08 way around so maybe this is just again a paradox
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 saying that you say that the police are trying
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 to find these monsters and they're going to justify
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 their wages by saying that you pay us and then
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 we take care of these when in fact maybe it's
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 the police that are monsters And that's kind
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 of what this game highlights. And I think we
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 should come back to that at the end. I guess
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 Dutch has said all he needs to say. His last
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 line is, our time has passed, John. And with
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 that, he falls backwards, killing himself. What
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 a cool way to go out. You didn't let anyone capture
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 you. And he doesn't let John, someone who is,
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 quote unquote, beneath him, be the one to take
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 him down. I'm not surprised that this is how
00:16:49 --> 00:16:53 he goes out. But I find it interesting. It's
00:16:53 --> 00:16:57 still not a win, you know, like he still he recognizes
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 when he says our time has passed that it's over
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 for him. And so I get ending it this way rather
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 than at the hands of someone else. But it still
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 kind of is at the hands of someone else because
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 they backed him into this corner. He made sure
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 that he wouldn't get brought back into prison
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 and maybe tortured by the police or he wouldn't.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23 be hung in front of a public so he chose his
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 way of how he knows that he's going to die either
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 way he just gets to continue his control over
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 his own fate and i get that i just think the
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 other side of it is this isn't where he wanted
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 to end up i guess but i also think he doesn't
00:17:39 --> 00:17:44 want to live in the new civilization that ross
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 was talking about so it's an interesting one
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 But I think we should do a so long for him. What
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 are your thoughts about Dutch? I think there's
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 there's multiple things. I don't know him enough.
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 We barely see him in the game besides what we
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 hear from other people. And I'm starting to question
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 how much of what other people are saying is true.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 So I have some hesitancy. But we do know that
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 he left John for dead. He's definitely not a
00:18:11 --> 00:18:16 mother respecter. I would say just to the mother.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:20 side of the neutral spectrum i think he's a mother
00:18:20 --> 00:18:24 too and the biggest thing for me is when nastas
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 mentions that his gang is pretty much made up
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 of young men from the reservation now a lot of
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35 them died for this oh and like for what you know
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 is it just dutch's last last ditch effort to
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 get out alive to beat the system okay then he
00:18:41 --> 00:18:45 just used people as his personal army essentially
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 I agree with you, mother****er. I get the appeal
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 of Dutch. Even still, and at least from John's
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 perspective, I get it. Yeah, I think John hates
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 him, but he also kind of represents freedom,
00:19:01 --> 00:19:06 in a way. I don't... Okay, so here's my question,
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 like, from John's perspective. Would fighting
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 the Pinkertons with Dutch feel better than being
00:19:12 --> 00:19:16 forced to fight Dutch by the Pinkertons? And
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 my follow -up to that is his family may be the
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 only thing keeping him from wondering this, from
00:19:21 --> 00:19:25 asking himself this question. Who would he rather
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 be fighting here? Number two, I agree with you
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 that his family has a huge role in this, but
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 going back to number one, I think it depends
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 on what free will looks like. If he's fighting
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 with Dutch and he says, hey, Dutch, I'm actually
00:19:40 --> 00:19:41 not comfortable with this. I'm going to sit this
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 one out. Does he have the ability to do that?
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 Like, is it his choice to fight the Pinkertons
00:19:47 --> 00:19:51 or is Dutch forcing him? And from what I think,
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 it's that Dutch does a really good job of convincing
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 John. But ultimately, John makes a lot of the
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 decisions on his own, maybe versus. being forced
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 to do what you want without any free will so
00:20:04 --> 00:20:09 i guess my answer is whatever side allows john
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 to make his own decision instead of being forced
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14 to do things that's the better side and if it
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 means against the pinkertons then that's that's
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 it and that's the question because when i say
00:20:19 --> 00:20:24 does he represent freedom in a way it's because
00:20:24 --> 00:20:28 dutch had his own set of rules they weren't complying
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 with the civilization that ross was talking about
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 so there's freedom there but how much freedom
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 is there is it just constrained to dutch's idea
00:20:38 --> 00:20:42 of civilization and i think that at the end of
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 the day his family is what drives him to make
00:20:45 --> 00:20:50 his decisions abandoning that idea of what freedom
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 they had fighting against civilization you just
00:20:54 --> 00:20:59 have to sacrifice that to not be, you know, being
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 hunted down. You know, you have to give one up
00:21:02 --> 00:21:09 to survive in the other, I guess. Oh, gosh. Okay,
00:21:09 --> 00:21:13 Ross. So John is down at the base of the mountain
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 looking at Dutch's dead body. Ross approaches
00:21:16 --> 00:21:20 and uses John's gun to shoot him and says, looks
00:21:20 --> 00:21:24 better in the report that way. Is it? because
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 that they had it maybe a deal in writing say
00:21:26 --> 00:21:31 that if john captures dutch whether he's dead
00:21:31 --> 00:21:37 or alive that relieves john of his wrongdoings
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 with the law like that clears it out or is it
00:21:40 --> 00:21:44 that it just means that john killing him clarifies
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 the police didn't do it so it's no one's fault
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 it's a it's a bounty killing another man it's
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 all good so i guess which one is it do you think
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 I see it as, because we hear Ross reference,
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 I'm going to get a medal out of this when this
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 is all over. So I see it as him, if we can keep
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 using the nature reference, he's more likely
00:22:07 --> 00:22:11 to get accolades if he uses one beast to kill
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 the other beast. I think it would demonstrate
00:22:14 --> 00:22:19 that he has control over John. Because why bring
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 John into it at all if he's just going to shoot
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 him himself? Well, why even need to shoot him?
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 Like, we know he's dead for sure, so why do we
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 need that extra bullet? To prove that he was
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 able to control John into shooting someone he
00:22:33 --> 00:22:40 loved. Yeah. Okay. Even though he didn't. Why
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 would Ross risk his life making this joke? I
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 am so done with Ross. At this point, I was so
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 mad. So John says... Where's my family? Can I
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 go see my family now? And Ross says, your wife
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 was killed in a prison riot last week. And John
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 just points the gun right at his head. And he's
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 like, I was only joking. They're at your farm.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 I wish John was quicker with pulling the trigger.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:08 What an idiot. Why would you? Like, why? So stupid.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 Ross, just everything he does, I hate him. I
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 agree. I really hate him so much. From his mustache
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 to his hat. I hate all of it. John arrives home
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 and we meet Abigail. First reactions to her?
00:23:22 --> 00:23:27 I like how normal this conversation between the
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 two of them are. She starts, like, smacking John,
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 but she's happy. Like, you know she's happy that
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 John's here. It just feels normal that that's
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 how I think a lot of people would have reacted.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41 Yeah, she's afraid and that's manifesting as
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 anger when she first meets him again because
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 she thinks that he might have gone back. to bill
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 and dutch and sort of abandoned them changing
00:23:51 --> 00:23:55 their ways but after he assures her like no that's
00:23:55 --> 00:24:00 not what happened it's over she is very relieved
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 so you can understand her reaction it comes across
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 as a little like what what why are you hitting
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 him at first yeah but when you get into the dialogue
00:24:09 --> 00:24:13 you understand like she's just afraid and then
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 his son runs over and John's pretty happy to
00:24:17 --> 00:24:21 see his son after kind of lost them both, right?
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 Yeah. And then it just like immediately kind
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 of returns back to like a normal family life.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 And I think that's really sweet. And then Uncle
00:24:30 --> 00:24:35 walks over. With his moldy beard. Well, dude,
00:24:35 --> 00:24:40 clean that thing. So Uncle has not been picking
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 up the slack very well while they've been gone.
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 And they lost all the cattle. So in the morning,
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 John and Jack ride to McFarland Ranch to buy
00:24:48 --> 00:24:52 some. John catches up with Drew and Bonnie. He
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 and Jack head out with their new herd of cattle.
00:24:55 --> 00:25:00 Why do we have another cow mission? They want
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 to torture you one last time. It is great to
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 have that full circle to see John getting cattle
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 from the McFarlands because we saw in the beginning,
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 this is what the dream is. If I come out the
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 other side, I'll come back to grab some cattle.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 And he does. I agree. It's nice to see that he's
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 gotten something out of this whole ordeal. He's
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 made friends and people he can trust, and that's
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 something I'm not sure he's ever really had.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 They have to fight off some rustlers, but they
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 do make it back home with their cattle. And this
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 is when John walks around his property, and we
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 run into the strange man yet again up on a hill
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 overlooking his ranch. Hey, there's a beautiful
00:25:39 --> 00:25:44 spot. Sure. What are you doing here? My accounts.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 I'm an accountant. Is that so? In a way. Reactions
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 to this part of the conversation so far? I don't
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 know what being an accountant is, but how is
00:25:55 --> 00:25:57 this guy traveling everywhere? You're an accountant.
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 You know what being an accountant is. I mean,
00:26:00 --> 00:26:05 like, for him. I know. I'm kidding. This is not
00:26:05 --> 00:26:08 any kind of accountant I've seen before who dresses
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 like a wannabe Abe Lincoln kind of dude. What's
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 your name? You know, it's the darnedest thing.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20 I can't remember. Tell me your damn name and
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 where you know me from. Well, I know you from
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 Mexico. I know you from back out west. All I
00:26:24 --> 00:26:28 know you from all over. Tell me your name or
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 I won't be responsible for my actions. Oh, but
00:26:30 --> 00:26:35 you will. You will be responsible. This is a
00:26:35 --> 00:26:41 fine spot. See you around, cowboy. Damn you!
00:26:41 --> 00:26:45 Yes. Many have. I want to start getting into
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 this, but I think we're going to save a lot of
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 our reactions and theories for this summary episode,
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54 so we'll come back to it. Sometime later, John
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 and Abigail look back at their past and where
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 they are now. It's a very deep conversation until
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 they're interrupted by crows. I love that John
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 doesn't really care about the crows and is just
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 trying to eat the food out of the pot with his
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 fingers until Abigail makes him go deal with
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 them. And it's so weird to see John this flirty
00:27:11 --> 00:27:15 that... We've only seen him being serious. So
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 John takes care of the crows by shooting like
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 60 of them. And then Abigail grills him about
00:27:20 --> 00:27:24 Bonnie after receiving a telegram from her. Also,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:30 how did John get fame from shooting crows on
00:27:30 --> 00:27:35 his own property? Doesn't make sense. Anyway.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 The telegram is asking for help. The county supply
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 of corn has been lost, and they need some from
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 John. Abigail's pretty suspicious, though. It's
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 really cute how jealous she is. Although I do
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51 love how Abigail, despite being a little jealous
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 or suspicious, is like, well, you have to help
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 them. They saved your life. But he gets the wagon
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 ready to go, and then Abigail runs out last minute
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 to tag along. I have one, actually, I have a
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05 couple notes from their drive on the way there.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 The first one is when she's grilling John some
00:28:08 --> 00:28:25 more about Bonnie. It's pretty good. When they're
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 talking about Bill and Dutch, I like how Abigail
00:28:28 --> 00:28:31 reminds John that they left him there when John
00:28:31 --> 00:28:35 starts to defend them. I think there's still
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 part of John where had he not been under the
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 pressure, he would have just left Dutch and Bill
00:28:41 --> 00:28:46 alone. Maybe even side with them. But yeah, he
00:28:46 --> 00:28:47 says when Dutch went crazy, Bill took it hard.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 For a while, we all thought we found something
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 right, a better way to live, but it was just
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 a lie. So you can see why it'd be hard to turn
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 against them because it seems like they all wanted
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 the same thing. But Abigail says, about it being
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 a lie you saw it before they did you knew the
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 truth john and they hated you for it what happened
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 like what kind of truth did you see what pushed
00:29:10 --> 00:29:14 him to want to leave bonnie and abigail meet
00:29:14 --> 00:29:18 i like their their dynamic and the way they team
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 up on john and bonnie's not really threatening
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 to the point where abigail feels like she needs
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27 to play or needs to be defensive about bonnie
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 she doesn't see her as a threat but i think that
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 shot in the end when they're leaving and Bonnie's
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 just out on the road that just it confirms that
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 Bonnie had a thing for John and Abigail was spot
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 on with her teasing afterwards that Bonnie had
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 feelings for him I know my notes like poor Bonnie
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 the way she's just hanging her head and like
00:29:48 --> 00:29:54 swaying her feet in the dirt they head back to
00:29:54 --> 00:29:58 the ranch and John says it's over talking about
00:29:59 --> 00:30:00 They're past everything they've been through.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 And Abigail says, do you really believe that?
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 And he responds, we have to. It's the only way
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 we'll ever have a future. The life we led, it
00:30:08 --> 00:30:12 doesn't just go away, she says. It's never over.
00:30:13 --> 00:30:17 I think Abigail's smart and John is, again, continues
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 to be naive that he thinks it could be truly
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 over. If I was John, I would have just backed
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 up my stuff and just left the farm and moved
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 somewhere else. are moved to Mexico. He has some
00:30:28 --> 00:30:32 friends there. And some enemies, though. Yes.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 But it's probably safer than being a sitting
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 duck in a farm where you know the government
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 knows where you are. I do like John's line, though,
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 of sometimes I think I was the stupid one for
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 believing I could get out. Maybe Dutch Bill and
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 Javier were just being honest with themselves.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 I think there's some truth to that, at least
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 for those three, but not necessarily for John.
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 Because I do think that John wanted to change.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 And then to follow it up, he says, maybe we can't
00:31:00 --> 00:31:04 change, but we gotta try for Jack's sake. I like
00:31:04 --> 00:31:10 that. I just personally, my own self, as a realist,
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 I don't think that you can continue to move forward
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 without frequently looking over your shoulder
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 if I went through what John went through. We've
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 seen it enough of John, how naive he is. That
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 it doesn't surprise me that he's being like this.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 I just wish he could have done something. I know
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 the game already had his ending for him, but
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 I wish he would have been able to be more careful
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 and that could have changed how the game ends.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 When I consider the ending of the game, I would
00:31:39 --> 00:31:44 say he's not so much naive as just being hopeful.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:48 But I think we'll get into that. We just need
00:31:48 --> 00:31:51 the information at the end of the game. They
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 get back home the next day. John takes a very
00:31:54 --> 00:31:57 reluctant Jack out hunting and Rufus helps his
00:31:57 --> 00:32:02 hunt. Rufus is the best. Jack annoys me. Oh,
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 yeah. He's like, you left. You're going to leave
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 again. John is like, I didn't want to leave.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:11 Yeah, they made me. So, yeah, Jack's very grumpy,
00:32:11 --> 00:32:15 but he does end up enjoying himself. John forces
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 Uncle to help him herd the cattle out to pasture.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 I forgot about this one. I thought we were done
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 with the cows. During which, some outlaws try
00:32:24 --> 00:32:27 to rob a train, which scares the cattle. And
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29 John takes down the criminals and is thanked
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 by the engineer and the passengers. Can we talk
00:32:32 --> 00:32:36 about how stupid the cattle is to just launch
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 themselves at a moving train? They want to be
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 here even less than I did playing that. But the
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 funny thing, it's kind of hilarious where they
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47 crash into the train, fall over, and then just...
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 pop they just pop back up then they're fine they're
00:32:50 --> 00:32:55 fine you know only hurt a little bit also how
00:32:55 --> 00:32:59 ironic that john is now taking down atlas at
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 a robbing trains when almost certainly that's
00:33:02 --> 00:33:06 exactly what he used to do and it's why it makes
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 him so good at taking them down because he knows
00:33:08 --> 00:33:14 how they think okay so after the cows John checks
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 back in with Jack. He helps him improve his shooting.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:22 Jack is in a mood. Of course. John then says
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 that wolves have been after the herd, so they
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 leave to go hunt them down. So after this, Jack's
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29 all amped up again. He's like, I could go kill
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33 a bear. And John is like, no, you can't. Never
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35 leave the ranch without checking in with me.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 But lo and behold, the next day, Uncle runs up
00:33:38 --> 00:33:40 to John and he's like, Jack left to go track
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 down a grizzly bear. Good boy Rufus locates Jack,
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 who's hiding behind a rock with a bear nearby.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 I believe the bear has killed his horse, so he's
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 kind of stuck. He's kind of cornered. John kills
00:33:51 --> 00:33:54 the bear and the two of them start riding back
00:33:54 --> 00:33:58 home. John is grilling Jack. He's like, you should
00:33:58 --> 00:34:01 know better. I told you not to do this. What
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 were you thinking? And then Jack's like, I'm
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 not stupid in that annoying teenage way. And
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10 John's like, you could have fooled me. I'm not
00:34:10 --> 00:34:13 stupid. You could have fooled me. I'm just waiting
00:34:13 --> 00:34:17 for a chance to use that. Yeah. After this, after
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 Jack is safely back home, Uncle and John break
00:34:20 --> 00:34:26 some wild horses. Oh, Uncle. Every time. Well,
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28 I think actually he only says it the last time
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31 John breaks a horse. But he's like, use your
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 knees, young woman. And he says it like every
00:34:34 --> 00:34:37 five seconds, a total of like five or six times.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:41 And it's so funny. And it's just in the background.
00:34:41 --> 00:34:43 You don't even notice it unless you're listening,
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 actively listening. And it's pretty darn good.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 Well, that's all I had for scene five. You have
00:34:51 --> 00:34:55 anything else? Nope. All right. Final scene of
00:34:55 --> 00:34:58 the game. So John finds Jack working in the barn
00:34:58 --> 00:35:02 and they're having a chat. They talk about writing
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05 a book. And I think kind of like about John changing.
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09 And Jack is like, I could name my book The Day
00:35:09 --> 00:35:13 John Marston Stopped Shooting, which I just think
00:35:13 --> 00:35:17 is the coldest, hardest line they could have
00:35:17 --> 00:35:22 dropped in right here. And then obviously people
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 know where we're going with this, but another
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27 line, they're talking about airplanes. And Jack
00:35:27 --> 00:35:29 says, one of those machines can turn men into
00:35:29 --> 00:35:33 angels. And John says, in a thinking, brooding
00:35:33 --> 00:35:36 manner. One of them machines can turn men into
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 angels. And I'm like, in this instance, is that
00:35:40 --> 00:35:45 machine a gun? A Gatlin gun specifically? So
00:35:45 --> 00:35:48 Uncle's looking through binoculars and calls
00:35:48 --> 00:35:52 out for John. John takes a look and does not
00:35:52 --> 00:35:55 like whatever he sees. He tells Jack, run inside
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58 and lock the doors. And then he hugs Jack. A
00:35:58 --> 00:36:01 nice long hug. And I think he knows what's coming
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04 at this point. I think so too. And I'm wondering,
00:36:04 --> 00:36:08 would it have been better for John to tell Jack
00:36:08 --> 00:36:11 what's going on or not? I don't think he sees
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 that there's time. Okay. But I can't say for
00:36:14 --> 00:36:18 sure. Then he says to Uncle, well, old man, looks
00:36:18 --> 00:36:20 like things is about to be settled once and for
00:36:20 --> 00:36:23 all. And a shootout begins. The army has been
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 sent to attack John. That's crazy. So much people
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31 for just one man. Jack soon refuses to stay put
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 inside anymore and picks up a gun. At this point,
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36 all three men are outside shooting and this is
00:36:36 --> 00:36:39 when Uncle gets shot and dies. I was not expecting
00:36:39 --> 00:36:42 that. With his last breaths, he says, You take
00:36:42 --> 00:36:46 Jack and Abby. Take them and don't worry about
00:36:46 --> 00:36:50 me. So long for Uncle, right? Yeah. He's a little
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 crotchety, but I think his heart is in the right
00:36:52 --> 00:36:57 place. Mm -hmm. i'd say between neutral and mother
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 respecter there wasn't he was very lazy not very
00:37:00 --> 00:37:04 helpful i was just gonna say maybe he's a lazy
00:37:04 --> 00:37:07 mother respecter yeah i think that's what it
00:37:07 --> 00:37:10 is a lazy mother respecter doesn't move anything
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 forward but he died fighting for john's family
00:37:13 --> 00:37:17 yeah he cares about them but he doesn't want
00:37:17 --> 00:37:22 to work very hard well john listens to uncle
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25 and gets his family to the barn and on a horse.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30 He says, I'll catch up. Then they exchange I
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33 love you's and they ride away. And then look
00:37:33 --> 00:37:36 on John's face though. My feelings watching this.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:40 I knew that there's a second game had no context
00:37:40 --> 00:37:44 for what it would be. So I was thinking like,
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 okay, he's not going to die because there's a
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48 second game and he's going to be the lead. I'm
00:37:48 --> 00:37:50 pretty sure he's not going to die. And then I
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52 saw the look on his face and I'm like, oh crap.
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 I don't know if he's going to make it. He stares
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 after them for only a moment, then turns to the
00:37:58 --> 00:38:02 door. Peeking out, he sees a lineup of men aimed
00:38:02 --> 00:38:05 right at him. With a sigh, he throws open the
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 doors, shoots as many as he can, which for me,
00:38:07 --> 00:38:11 not very many because I don't use Deadeye. So
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 ruined the cinematic a little bit there. My apologies.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 So he shoots as many men as he can before taking
00:38:17 --> 00:38:20 an ungodly amount of bullets. A bit overkill,
00:38:20 --> 00:38:27 right? Is there a way in the game to avoid John
00:38:27 --> 00:38:30 dying? Like, if you're really good at Deadeye,
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32 do you think you could have just killed them
00:38:32 --> 00:38:36 all? Many have tried. None have succeeded. In
00:38:36 --> 00:38:39 this part, John, knowing what was waiting for
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42 him on the other side, he should have just walked
00:38:42 --> 00:38:46 around and take a sneak attack or something.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:49 I know. My only thing, and we'll talk about this
00:38:49 --> 00:38:51 later because this is also a summary topic, but
00:38:51 --> 00:38:53 my only line that I'll leave you with for your
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56 question is, does he know the only freedom for
00:38:56 --> 00:39:00 his family is his death? Ooh, let me write some
00:39:00 --> 00:39:05 notes. Not gonna lie, I was devastated watching
00:39:05 --> 00:39:08 this scene. I was not expecting that because
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 part of me thought he was going to be the main
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 character in Red Dead Redemption 2 because I
00:39:14 --> 00:39:16 didn't. know anything about it i thought there
00:39:16 --> 00:39:21 were six games i was so wrong about that but
00:39:21 --> 00:39:23 i was thinking that oh he's gonna be in the next
00:39:23 --> 00:39:26 four games or so i thought it was gonna be a
00:39:26 --> 00:39:31 situation that i never corrected you i know which
00:39:31 --> 00:39:33 is making it things worse because it hit me hard
00:39:33 --> 00:39:36 because i did not expect this to end this way
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 i wanted it to hit you hard though imagine being
00:39:39 --> 00:39:43 13 14 year old leah not only did you play through
00:39:43 --> 00:39:45 the game you also did all the stranger missions
00:39:45 --> 00:39:48 you spent like two or three times longer with
00:39:48 --> 00:39:52 john and then this happens and this is shortened
00:39:52 --> 00:39:56 to our gameplay but i was wondering why after
00:39:56 --> 00:40:00 he catches or kills dutch or forces dutch to
00:40:00 --> 00:40:03 die there's still an hour of gameplay left and
00:40:03 --> 00:40:04 i was confused and i was like oh we're gonna
00:40:04 --> 00:40:06 get a happily ever after but i'm like but that's
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 still only like 15 minutes of the game we still
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 got 45 i just didn't know what was waiting for
00:40:11 --> 00:40:12 me on the other side because i was confident
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14 he was going to survive for the next game and
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17 i was so wrong I know, because you don't really
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 trust the ending when we're at Dutch. We're like,
00:40:20 --> 00:40:23 this doesn't feel right. And when I played it
00:40:23 --> 00:40:24 for the first time, I thought he was going to
00:40:24 --> 00:40:26 get back to his ranch and his family was going
00:40:26 --> 00:40:29 to be dead. We've been having this conversation
00:40:29 --> 00:40:32 about how worried I was whether or not Abigail
00:40:32 --> 00:40:38 and Jack were going to survive. Well, first of
00:40:38 --> 00:40:40 all, I have to say f***ing Ross. I hate him.
00:40:40 --> 00:40:44 But I think we got to do a so long for John.
00:40:44 --> 00:40:47 Hands down, Mother Respecter, no need to explain.
00:40:47 --> 00:40:51 I think it's pretty obvious. Mother Respecter,
00:40:51 --> 00:40:55 yeah, he's got a troubled past, but he was brought
00:40:55 --> 00:40:58 into that gang as a child. What else did he know?
00:40:58 --> 00:41:00 You know, he didn't know a whole lot else, and
00:41:00 --> 00:41:04 he still made the effort to turn his life around,
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 which, isn't that what we want criminals to do?
00:41:07 --> 00:41:10 I think he was a little messed up by what happened
00:41:10 --> 00:41:11 in the gang, and he did some messed up things,
00:41:12 --> 00:41:14 but... At the end of the day, he was trying to
00:41:14 --> 00:41:18 repay for all of that. And that's more than a
00:41:18 --> 00:41:21 lot of people do. So I think he has to be a mother
00:41:21 --> 00:41:24 respecter. I'm trying to hold back on my summary
00:41:24 --> 00:41:27 stuff. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut because
00:41:27 --> 00:41:30 I keep staring at it in my notes. And I'm like,
00:41:30 --> 00:41:35 can't say that. So I'm going to let you cue us
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 to the next section. Okay. So we then cut to
00:41:39 --> 00:41:42 Abigail and Jack who heard the gunshots and decide
00:41:42 --> 00:41:45 to race back, which thank you. I'm so glad they
00:41:45 --> 00:41:48 went back. Me too. It would have hurt me even
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51 more if Jack was like, no, we got to listen to
00:41:51 --> 00:41:53 what dad says. The one and only time he actually
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56 listens to what his dad says. And I'm glad he
00:41:56 --> 00:42:00 disobeys and brings his mom and him back, which
00:42:00 --> 00:42:03 still continues to hurt me. Yep. And they don't
00:42:03 --> 00:42:05 like what they find when they get there. But.
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 They bury him sometime later above the ranch.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:13 And should I just keep going? Keep going. To
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16 the time jump? Mm -hmm. We cut to Jack. He's
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 grown up now. He looks at his father's grave,
00:42:19 --> 00:42:22 then turns and walks off. And this is when we
00:42:22 --> 00:42:25 see that Abigail has a grave, too. It's dated
00:42:25 --> 00:42:29 1914, so it's been three years or so. Three years
00:42:29 --> 00:42:32 is not enough time to go Jack looking from blonde
00:42:32 --> 00:42:36 hair to... black hair i think he now has definitely
00:42:36 --> 00:42:41 was never blonde wait hold on i don't know why
00:42:41 --> 00:42:45 i keep imagining jack as blonde oh it was dark
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47 i don't know why i know it was dark but i don't
00:42:47 --> 00:42:50 know why i kept imagining him as blonde yeah
00:42:50 --> 00:42:52 okay but that's definitely not google anything
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 red dead redemption related okay okay sounds
00:42:54 --> 00:42:58 good you're gonna get spoilers i closed it real
00:42:58 --> 00:43:01 quick but why does jack look mexican he looks
00:43:01 --> 00:43:05 really similar to reyes It's funny you say this,
00:43:05 --> 00:43:07 but it's weird that you bring up Reyes because
00:43:07 --> 00:43:11 people have a theory that he's actually Javier's
00:43:11 --> 00:43:14 son, but that theory's pretty much been debunked
00:43:14 --> 00:43:17 based on the timelines of when people joined
00:43:17 --> 00:43:20 the gang. So it's pretty well and confirmed that
00:43:20 --> 00:43:23 he is John's son. He rides to Blackwater where
00:43:23 --> 00:43:26 he finds a man who looks like a government agent.
00:43:26 --> 00:43:29 He questions him about the whereabouts of Edgar
00:43:29 --> 00:43:33 Ross. The man responds, he won himself a chest
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35 full of medals. I think he went and retired about
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38 a year ago. Last he heard, he and his wife were
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 at Lake Don Julio. I think I know where this
00:43:41 --> 00:43:43 is going, Jack. I think I know what you want
00:43:43 --> 00:43:47 to do. So Jack finds Ross's wife at the lake
00:43:47 --> 00:43:49 cabin. She tells him that he and his brother
00:43:49 --> 00:43:53 went hunting on the river in Mexico. She says
00:43:53 --> 00:43:56 he's a sensitive man. And Jack responds, I'm
00:43:56 --> 00:44:00 sure your husband will be just fine. Ross's wife?
00:44:00 --> 00:44:07 Is she dumb? Yes. Okay, so we're back in Mexico.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:13 Jack finds Ross. I love this. Ross says, do I
00:44:13 --> 00:44:17 know you? Which really, I feel like is a tie
00:44:17 --> 00:44:20 to the Stranger Mission. So we'll react to that
00:44:20 --> 00:44:25 in the summary. My name is Jack Marston. You
00:44:25 --> 00:44:33 knew my father. I see. I remember your father.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:41 I've come for you, Ross. And you, boy, have sure
00:44:41 --> 00:44:46 shit value. You killed my father. Your father
00:44:46 --> 00:44:49 killed himself with the life he lived. Sure.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:53 Except that he wasn't living that life anymore.
00:44:54 --> 00:44:58 And Ross knew he wanted out. So we duel him.
00:44:58 --> 00:45:03 jack kills him so satisfying so satisfying but
00:45:03 --> 00:45:07 we have to talk about the way jack looks at the
00:45:07 --> 00:45:11 gun my thought is that that's probably the same
00:45:11 --> 00:45:16 gun that killed dutch that ross used and i'm
00:45:16 --> 00:45:19 thinking that that whole report i don't know
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21 how ross reported it but saying that maybe this
00:45:21 --> 00:45:23 was the murder weapon and therefore john should
00:45:23 --> 00:45:26 die because he shouldn't have killed him It's
00:45:26 --> 00:45:28 going to be that murder weapon in that report.
00:45:28 --> 00:45:30 It's the same thing that's going to end Ross.
00:45:31 --> 00:45:35 What he started to end John's life is the same
00:45:35 --> 00:45:36 weapon that ends his life. I don't know if that
00:45:36 --> 00:45:40 makes sense. It does. I went a different route.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:44 Oh, okay. So I have two questions. Well, my first
00:45:44 --> 00:45:47 question is, is Jack an outlaw now? Because he
00:45:47 --> 00:45:51 looks at this gun like it stirs something within
00:45:51 --> 00:45:54 him, right? After he shoots this guy. But then...
00:45:54 --> 00:45:57 I think deeper about it, and I remember on one
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00 of the hunting trips he went on with John, he
00:46:00 --> 00:46:02 says, well, I love it, because he's like, can
00:46:02 --> 00:46:05 I ask you a question? John's like, sure. Are
00:46:05 --> 00:46:24 you a murderer? And John's like, what? And so
00:46:24 --> 00:46:28 when he's looking at the gun, I see it two ways.
00:46:28 --> 00:46:32 As what I said, he's either an outlaw now because
00:46:32 --> 00:46:36 he realized, I kind of liked doing that. Or he's
00:46:36 --> 00:46:39 pondering what John said and thinking, did I
00:46:39 --> 00:46:43 kill him or did I murder him? Because he's kind
00:46:43 --> 00:46:47 of deserving of being killed, right? And this
00:46:47 --> 00:46:49 is probably Jack's first kill. And I think that
00:46:49 --> 00:46:52 he now understands what John meant when he was
00:46:52 --> 00:46:55 saying that. That's a lot more poetic than what
00:46:55 --> 00:46:59 I came up with. I mean, now that you say it,
00:46:59 --> 00:47:02 though, my idea of the same weapon that ended
00:47:02 --> 00:47:07 John is a weapon that ends Ross, who started
00:47:07 --> 00:47:11 everything. It makes sense to me. And then taking
00:47:11 --> 00:47:16 also into consideration that Jack probably understands
00:47:16 --> 00:47:21 what his dad was saying. It's not. murder it's
00:47:21 --> 00:47:25 revenge slash killing and i can justify that
00:47:25 --> 00:47:30 i also like um taking yours a little bit different
00:47:30 --> 00:47:33 john's son who looks like him except for the
00:47:33 --> 00:47:38 facial hair wearing john's hat john's gun belt
00:47:38 --> 00:47:42 his holster using john's gun to kill ross it's
00:47:42 --> 00:47:45 kind of poetic in that way where it's like not
00:47:45 --> 00:47:49 necessarily john killed ross but Because John
00:47:49 --> 00:47:54 changed his ways, everything he left behind is
00:47:54 --> 00:47:57 what ends up biting Ross in the ass. And so it's
00:47:57 --> 00:48:00 kind of like, even though Ross was the good guy,
00:48:00 --> 00:48:04 the police officer, someone changing their ways
00:48:04 --> 00:48:07 to become good ultimately takes down someone
00:48:07 --> 00:48:13 using good to justify their evil actions. Yeah,
00:48:13 --> 00:48:16 I feel like we circled back around it for both.
00:48:16 --> 00:48:20 That storyline about the gun and also the quick
00:48:20 --> 00:48:23 one -two line about explaining the difference
00:48:23 --> 00:48:27 between murder and killing someone. This game
00:48:27 --> 00:48:30 drops so many quotes that come back later, but
00:48:30 --> 00:48:34 you have to be looking like we are to really
00:48:34 --> 00:48:37 feel their full impact, or you have to play the
00:48:37 --> 00:48:40 game multiple times. And you said so, too, while
00:48:40 --> 00:48:44 watching this in person. It goes back to why
00:48:44 --> 00:48:47 we're doing this podcast is you're picking up
00:48:47 --> 00:48:50 on things that you may have not already seen
00:48:50 --> 00:48:54 because you're watching it with me, with my sort
00:48:54 --> 00:48:57 of lens where I'm still confused. Like I watched
00:48:57 --> 00:49:00 this without knowing that John was going to be
00:49:00 --> 00:49:03 dead. And so everything I'm seeing is in a totally
00:49:03 --> 00:49:06 different light. And that's why I love doing
00:49:06 --> 00:49:08 the summary episodes because we have time to.
00:49:09 --> 00:49:12 react and absorb everything and then we ask each
00:49:12 --> 00:49:15 other questions that make you go back and look
00:49:15 --> 00:49:18 at things in a different perspective and i'm
00:49:18 --> 00:49:22 really excited for next week yeah oh man yeah
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25 i'm like i want to say some more stuff but i
00:49:25 --> 00:49:28 don't want to because i just need to shut up
00:49:28 --> 00:49:32 and not ruin our summary episode for either of
00:49:32 --> 00:49:35 us i feel so horrible saying i'm glad that you
00:49:35 --> 00:49:39 are like sad and in pain at this ending but i
00:49:39 --> 00:49:43 so am i'm still not quite over it and i still
00:49:43 --> 00:49:45 don't know how i feel about it because i'm still
00:49:45 --> 00:49:48 a bit in shock i'm not over it either it makes
00:49:48 --> 00:49:51 you feel better and it's been 14 years for you
00:49:51 --> 00:49:57 i'll never be over it with that i'm gonna call
00:49:57 --> 00:50:01 it audacity on one three two one thank you for
00:50:01 --> 00:50:03 listening and don't forget to send in any questions
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05 comments or game suggestions You can find all
00:50:05 --> 00:50:08 our contact info on our website, replayreviewspod
00:50:08 --> 00:50:10 .com, or contact us directly through our site.
00:50:10 --> 00:50:13 Did we completely miss something? Are we way
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14 off the mark? Or do you just want us to take
00:50:14 --> 00:50:17 a deeper look at anything from the game? We'll
00:50:17 --> 00:50:19 tackle any topics you all want to hear in our
00:50:19 --> 00:50:21 season wrap -up episode. We also have a Reddit
00:50:21 --> 00:50:23 where we discuss anything we're curious about.
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25 Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking.
00:50:26 --> 00:50:28 Our theme music is Condemned by Eggie Toast.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:30 They'll play you out and we'll be back next week
00:50:30 --> 00:50:31 with the summary episode.